Wang Ni

Wang Ni was a worthy man from the time of Emperor Yao, and he was the disciple of Bei Yi. Nie Que studied under Wang Ni and asked him about the Dao.

Nie Que asked: “Do you know that which all things agree is right?”
Wang Ni replied: “How would I know that?”
Nie Que asked: “Do you know that which you do not know?”
Wang Ni replied: “How would I know that?”
Nie Que asked: “Then, do things possess no knowledge at all?”
Wang Ni replied: “How would I know that? Nevertheless, let me try to speak. How do I know that what I call ‘knowing’ is not actually ignorance? And how do I know that what I call ‘not knowing’ is not actually true knowledge?

“Let me ask you this: If humans sleep in damp places, they get back pain and become paralyzed; but do eels feel the same? If they live in trees, they tremble with fear; but do monkeys feel the same? Of these three, who knows the correct place to live?
Humans eat grain and meat; deer eat grass; centipedes find snakes delicious; hawks and crows relish mice. Of these four, who knows the correct taste?
Monkeys mate with female gibbons; deer mate with other deer; eels swim with fish.
Mao Qiang and Li Ji were considered beauties by humans; yet when fish saw them, they dove deep; when birds saw them, they flew high; when deer saw them, they bolted away. Of these four, who knows the correct standard of beauty in the world?

“From my perspective, the beginnings of benevolence and righteousness, and the paths of right and wrong, are a chaotic jumble. How could I possibly know their distinctions?”

Nie Que asked: “If you do not know profit and harm, then does the Perfect Man (Zhiren) also not know profit and harm?”
Wang Ni replied: “The Perfect Man is divine! If great marshes burn, he cannot feel the heat; if the great rivers freeze, he cannot feel the cold; if thunder splits mountains and wind shakes the seas, he cannot be frightened. One such as this rides on clouds and mist, straddles the sun and moon, and wanders beyond the Four Seas. Life and death cause no change within him, let alone mere matters of profit and harm!”

Note

This passage is a direct adaptation of a famous dialogue from the Daoist classic Zhuangzi (Chapter 2: “Discussion on Making All Things Equal”). It illustrates the core Daoist philosophy of relativism and the transcendence of the sage.

Wang Ni

A legendary sage from the time of Emperor Yao. In Daoist texts, he represents the embodiment of skepticism toward conventional human knowledge. He claims ignorance not because he is stupid, but because he realizes that human standards are limited and subjective.

Nie Que

A seeker of truth and student of Wang Ni. He represents the intelligent but still questioning mind that has not yet fully transcended dualistic thinking.

Emperor Yao

The legendary Sage King. Placing these dialogues in his era links the highest political virtue with the deepest spiritual wisdom.

Mao Qiang and Li Ji

Famous ancient Chinese beauties. They are used here as a benchmark for human aesthetic standards, which are then contrasted with the reactions of animals to show that “beauty” is subjective, not absolute.

Relativism of Standards (The “Correct” Place, Taste, and Color)

• Wang Ni uses examples of different species (humans, eels, monkeys, deer, birds) to argue that there is no single, universal standard for what is “good,” “comfortable,” or “beautiful.”
• What is good for one may be harmful to another. Therefore, human concepts of “Right vs. Wrong” or “Benevolence vs. Cruelty” are merely relative perspectives, not absolute truths. This challenges the Confucian insistence on fixed moral codes.

“How would I know?”

This repeated phrase is a rhetorical device emphasizing Socratic ignorance in a Daoist context. True wisdom begins with admitting the limits of one’s own perspective.

The Perfect Man (Zhiren)

• This is the Daoist ideal of the highest human state (similar to the Zhenren or “True Person”).
• The Perfect Man is immune to physical extremes (fire, ice, thunder) not necessarily through magic, but because his spirit is so unified with the Dao that external circumstances cannot disturb his inner peace.
• He rides clouds and the sun/moon, symbolizing total freedom from earthly constraints. Most importantly, he is unmoved by “life and death” or “profit and harm,” having transcended the dualities that govern ordinary human anxiety.

Critique of Confucian Morality

When Wang Ni says “benevolence and righteousness… are a chaotic jumble,” he is directly critiquing the Confucian values that dominated Chinese society. He suggests that imposing rigid moral categories creates confusion rather than order.

Unity with Nature

The text emphasizes observing nature (animals) to understand truth, rather than looking to human books or laws. The behavior of animals is seen as natural and correct for them, just as human behavior is for humans, without one being superior to the other.

王倪者，尧时贤人也，师被衣。啮缺又学於王倪，问道焉。啮缺曰：“子知物之所同是乎？”曰：“吾恶乎知之。”“子知子之所不知邪？”曰：“吾恶乎知之。”“然则物无知邪？”曰：“吾恶乎知之。虽然，尝试言之。庸讵知吾所谓知之非不知邪？庸讵知吾所谓不知之非知邪？且吾尝试问乎汝，民湿寝则腰疾偏死，鱿然乎哉？木处则惴栗恂惧，猿猴然乎哉？三者孰知正处？民食刍豢，麇鹿食荐，卿且甘带，鸱鸦耆鼠，四者孰知正味？猿猵狙以为雌，麋与鹿交，鱿与鱼游。毛嫱丽姬，人之所美也。鱼见之深入，鸟见之高飞，麋鹿见之决骤，四者孰知天下之正色哉？自我观之，仁义之端，是非之涂，樊然淆乱，吾恶能知其辩”。啮缺曰：“子不知利害，则至人固不知利害乎？”王倪曰：“至人神矣！大泽焚而不能热，河汉冱而不能寒，疾雷破山风振海而不能惊，若然者，乘云气，骑曰月，而游乎四海之外，死生无变於已，而况利害之端乎？”