Ji Ziran asked, “Can Zhong You and Ran Qiu be considered great ministers?”
The Master replied, “I expected you to ask about something extraordinary – instead, you ask about You and Qiu! A great minister serves his ruler according to the Way (Dao); if this is not possible, he withdraws. As for You and Qiu, they may at best be called ‘functionaries’ (functional ministers).”
Ji Ziran then asked, “Then do they simply obey their lord in everything?”
The Master answered, “Even if their lord were to commit patricide or regicide, they would not follow him.”
Note
This passage from the Analects of Confucius articulates his rigorous standard for political morality and the ethical limits of loyalty.
He distinguishes sharply between a true minister or great minister – who prioritizes moral principle over position – and a mere functionary – who fulfills duties competently but lacks the courage to resign when the ruler violates the Way. Subtly, Confucius criticizes his own disciples: though capable administrators, Zilu and Ran Qiu served the powerful Ji family (who had usurped authority in Lu) without fully withdrawing when their policies conflicted with righteousness – hence they fall short of the ideal “minister.” Yet Confucius also defends them: despite their compromises, they retain a moral bottom line – they would never condone grave crimes like regicide or patricide.
This reveals a nuanced Confucian political ethic: while full integrity demands resignation in the face of persistent injustice, even imperfect service can retain moral worth if it refuses absolute complicity in evil. The dialogue thus balances idealism with realism, affirming that ethical resistance has degrees – but some lines must never be crossed.
Further Reading
The Master said, “Be steadfast in faith, love learning, and hold fast to the good Way unto death. Do not enter a state in peril; do not reside in a state in chaos. When the world has the Way, appear; when it lacks the Way, withdraw.” Analects 8.13 (Tai Bo)
Both emphasize that a true follower of the Way should withdraw from corrupt regimes – highlighting why Zilu and Ran Qiu fall short as “true ministers.”
The Ji family was richer than the Duke of Zhou, yet Ran Qiu helped them amass wealth. The Master said, “He is no longer my disciple! You may beat the drum and denounce him.” Analects 11.17 (Xian Jin)
Shows Confucius’s sharp disapproval of Ran Qiu’s collaboration with the Ji family – context for why he is deemed only a “functionary,” not a “true minister.”
季子然問：「仲由、冉求可謂大臣與？」子曰：「吾以子為異之問，曾由與求之問。所謂大臣者：以道事君，不可則止。今由與求也，可謂具臣矣。」曰：「然則從之者與？」子曰：「弒父與君，亦不從也。」
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